The Gaming Paradise

[Tommy Thunder]

Apologies if I'm late with this one, but has anyone seen the new GTA5 trailer?
All I can say is; wow. I can not WAIT for this game to come out!

[Tommy Thunder]

Yeah, I was in no way suggesting that Assassin's Creed was the only series putting out half-assed, yearly rush-jobs. I'm just singling the franchise out for the praise it receives being completely disproportionate to the actual quality of its releases, and how it is that the critics and fans alike seem to be willingly ignorant to the fact that each new game is only an incremental improvement over the one that came before it (with the exception being Assassin's Creed 2, as it was a massive leap over the first one). It's almost as if it gets held to a different set of standards, and its flaws get completely ignored just because people are so enamored with the concept.

I completely agree. They started doing that with the Tomb Raider series, and look at where that ended up? To Raider 5 and 6 were horrible. Thank God someone else took over the company and they concentrated on making good games rather than sending out yearly titles after the 6th.

[HeelTurn]

Another series that somehow gets away with being essentially the same game over and over with little to no difference is the New Super Mario series, each game adds 1 or 2 little things like playing as a Mii, multiplayer or the addition of Yoshi, yet whenever a new one comes out people flock to it like its the first Mario game in years.

[Iron Ape]

Another series that somehow gets away with being essentially the same game over and over with little to no difference is the New Super Mario series, each game adds 1 or 2 little things like playing as a Mii, multiplayer or the addition of Yoshi, yet whenever a new one comes out people flock to it like its the first Mario game in years.

But the difference there is that absolutely no one, fans included, are afraid to call that spade a spade. Each and every review/assessment/critique mentions it's just more of the same platforming goodness. Hell, the New series' entire function is to deliver that blast of familiarity and nostalgia- they go to great pains dwelling on the past because that's what drives the product's entire appeal- so knocking it for doing exactly what it sets out to do wouldn't make sense. It's not designed under the pretense that it strives for more when the sticker on the bumper clearly reads "Honk if you love old-school".

EDIT: The main-series Mario games would be a more appropriate comparison, but that particular point wouldn't hold on account of those games constantly evolving and redefining what platformers can/should be.

[HeelTurn]

But the difference there is that absolutely no one, fans included, are afraid to call that spade a spade. Each and every review/assessment/critique mentions it's just more of the same platforming goodness. Hell, the New series' entire function is to deliver that blast of familiarity and nostalgia- they go to great pains dwelling on the past because that's what drives the products appeal- so knocking it for doing exactly what it sets out to do wouldn't make sense. It's not designed under the pretense that it strives for more when the sticker on the bumper clearly reads "Honk if you love old-school".

EDIT: The main-series Mario games would be a more appropriate comparison, but that particular point wouldn't hold on account of those games constantly evolving and redefining what platformers can/should be.

The Mario series is fun, no qualms there, but the fact every second Mario game seems to be more of the same to its immediate predecessor only with the addition of Yoshi seems relatively lazy in some aspects. Super Mario 3 and Mario World, pretty similar in design, but with Yoshi added, Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine, again similar but with Yoshi, and of course Galaxy 1 and 2, but with added Yoshi.

However if you look at every second game then yeah Mario games do evolve, and that is what I prefer more so than the New mario series.

[Iron Ape]

I completely agree. They started doing that with the Tomb Raider series, and look at where that ended up? To Raider 5 and 6 were horrible. Thank God someone else took over the company and they concentrated on making good games rather than sending out yearly titles after the 6th.

Yep. Sega did the same damn thing with Sonic. They were so eager to just cobble a game together, for the sake of driving their annual sales by releasing a known quantity, that no real long-term thought was put into how terrible installment after terrible installment would eat away at the legacy. I mean, remember when Sonic used to almost be on the same level as Mario? Some say it takes 3 awesome games to help erase the aftertaste of one awful one, and Sega have had to learn that the hard way. Good to see them finally getting their house in order now, though.

With any luck, maybe the new Tomb Raider reboot will be as good as Sega's past 2 Sonic games (Colors and Generations both far exceeded my admittedly-low expectations to kick all kinds of ass).

[Iron Ape]

The Mario series is fun, no qualms there, but the fact every second Mario game seems to be more of the same to its immediate predecessor only with the addition of Yoshi seems relatively lazy in some aspects. Super Mario 3 and Mario World, pretty similar in design, but with Yoshi added, Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine, again similar but with Yoshi, and of course Galaxy 1 and 2, but with added Yoshi.

However if you look at every second game then yeah Mario games do evolve, and that is what I prefer more so than the New mario series.

Yeah, I completely disagree with this assessment as it's more than a little reductive. There are way more fundamental changes from game to game than just add Yoshi.

[HeelTurn]

Yeah, I completely disagree with this assessment as it's more than a little reductive. There are way more fundamental changes from game to game than just add Yoshi.

Really? Mario Galaxy 2 just felt the same in almost every way as Galaxy 1 but with Yoshi lol

Mario 64 and Sunshine, yes Sunshine was a water game with FLOOD or whatever it was called, so that I retract that one.

Mario Bros 3 and Mario World were very similar though, going from World to World, beating the Koopa Kids in a castle then moving on.

[Iron Ape]

Really? Mario Galaxy 2 just felt the same in almost every way as Galaxy 1 but with Yoshi lol

It's not a ginormous leap from Galaxy 1 to Galaxy 2- the games have the same visual fidelity, sure- but the changes certainly aren't anywhere near as incremental as the ones made over the course of the last 3 or 4 Assassin's Creed games. I mean, completely eliminating the HUB overworld to streamline the experience helped perfect Galaxy 2's pacing. They went balls-out ambitious and experimental with the stage design, and the emphasis on linearity in the level chunklets harkened back to the left-to-right Mario games of yore. The game even has twice the levels and twice the number of stars to collect- the Green Stars challenge was put into place to cater to the more hardcore audience- increasing the game's value rather considerably. Oh, and instead of Galaxy 1's Midi score, they went full out orchestral for Galaxy 2.

So, it is essentially more of the same, but it's also more of the awesome. And they somehow made the awesome even awesomer, and then took all of the not quite so awesome parts out to make room for more awesomeness. Not much room to improve when you're damn near close to perfect, anyways.

Mario 64 and Sunshine, yes Sunshine was a water game with FLOOD or whatever it was called, so that I retract that one.

Mario Bros 3 and Mario World were very similar though, going from World to World, beating the Koopa Kids in a castle then moving on.

Off the top of my head, World also had:

- the graphical leap from 8-bit to 16-bit (which was rather substantial at the time) that also came with an entirely new art style
- mode 7 backgrounds
- more complex soundtrack
- a prehistoric theme
- an inter-connected overworld map
- alternate/hidden exits that lead to seemingly unattainable parts of the map
- the addition of now series-staple ghost houses
- named levels instead of numeric, sequential stages
- a save feature which allowed for progression not having to be made all in a single sitting (this one is probably the most substantial)
- more buttons on the SNES controller resulting in more moves for Mario
- new enemies, new gameplay-affecting power-ups
- back-tracking to previously played levels
- unlockable extra map/world

Again, not exactly reinventing the wheel, but the additions/improvements/whatever are certainly more pronounced than those made with the last couple of AC titles.

[Tomsta666]

Super Mario Galaxy 2 was like the Japanese Super Mario Bros 2 to Galaxy 1's Super Mario Bros.