Ziggler & Ryder from TLC to Mania

[El T Draino 316]

Yo Everyone,

First of all, I'd like to layout some clear groundwork before I dive into this topic. I absolutely enjoyed Zack Ryder's climb to relevancy. Although he doesn't know I exist, I was proud of him and the journey he took us on. That said, I consider myself a very open-minded, level-headed wrestling fan. I'm aware he is not a main-event-worthy, stud in-ring-performer at this point in time. So as you read this, kindly know that I am not blindly pulling for Ryder because of his catchphrases and merchandise sales (they are impressive).

A few months back at TLC, Zach Ryder vs. Dolph Ziggler for the title provided one of the best moments of the year for me. Ryder reached the mountain-top, while Ziggler proved, yet again, that he is in a class of his on as a performer. These two were hot, their characters were intriguing, - on Raw each week and on Ryder's youtube show. The US Title really meant something. So did this momentum carry them toward Wrestlemania?

1. Dolph instantly climbed into the main event scene (perhaps too fast, but oh well). He cut an AWESOME promo on Mic Foley, and a handful of others during his feud with CM Punk. On the mic and in the ring, I felt like he was clicking on all cylinders- edgy, cocky, but sharp as hell. He loses to CM Punk at the next PPV, ole Johnny overshadowed that feud anyway, but Dolph again looked great in defeat. Since then he has become less and less of a player in the Monday Night Games- less promos, less singles matches. We're a month from Wrestlemania, and it's shaping out to be Dolph in a TAG match in a bland, undervalued tag division. WHY? Creative really couldn't find a decent feud for a guy like Ziggler? They've been working the Vicky Swagger triangle for MONTHS, I'd much rather see those two turn on each other and fight at Mania in a well-wrestled singles match - then a last minute, thrown-together meaningless tag match. Do we even want Dolph to win the tag titles? Wouldn't it just postpone his entrance to the main event scene? He's clearly ready in my opinion.

2. This is getting long, so I'll keep Ryder's section brief. He wins the title, they throw him into a cheesy storyline with Eve. He loses the title to Swagger in a 'match that he wasn't cleared for', only to never get it back or address that angle. The US title has now basically been passed from Zigs to Swags with Ryder as the middleman. The US Title lost all of the value and allure Dolph worked so hard to earn it. Now, it's seeming like no Ryder at Mania. Meanwhile, Kane is just randomly destroying the tag division. So Ryder and Kane both need Mania opponents- Kane used Ryder, ruined his relationship, and put him out of commission, but it doesn't seem logical to have them fight? I'm sorry that I am venting at this point, but what is creative doing here? Honestly.

Long story short, two stars were shining bright as hell a few months ago, and the WWE is just letting them fade. Worst part is, they could be utilized, right now, in interesting stories. Instead they'll be hardly memorable at this years Mania. Thoughts?

[CM Rock-Austin]

This should be a blog but great writing though! Anyways IMO they still have plenty of years left to have great moments at a Wrestlemania, it's just not everyone could be used all at the same time some people will have to take a back seat sometimes. In this case it is Ziggler but I think he will be in a match at Wrestlemania but will it be in the MITB match or on Team JL for the GM vs GM match? Ryder on the other hand if and when he gets back since he has a "broken back" might not have a match at all.

[TNAorWWEorROH]

Well, I think your Wrong, Wrong and Wrong.

Dolph Ziggler is absolutely terrible on the mic, He cut a good promo against mick foley? HUH? That was one of the worst promos I have ever seen in my life so I don't know what you were watching. That is the reason Ziggler gets pushed backwards, he cannot cut a promo. And the US title was not worth anything more because Zack Ryder won the title ( a guy who won an "internet championship" ) As a matter of fact, having Zack ryder go over Dolph Ziggler was a terrible decision.

The reason why they took Ryder off of TV is because his momentum was dieing out, which is understandable. The guy got a push because he did some internet youtube clips and a comedy show, He didn't get a push because of his wrestling skills or promo ability so how is it that shocking to anybody that the guy got shelved?

[bearkg88]

Well, I think your Wrong, Wrong and Wrong.

Dolph Ziggler is absolutely terrible on the mic, He cut a good promo against mick foley? HUH? That was one of the worst promos I have ever seen in my life so I don't know what you were watching. That is the reason Ziggler gets pushed backwards, he cannot cut a promo. And the US title was not worth anything more because Zack Ryder won the title ( a guy who won an "internet championship" ) As a matter of fact, having Zack ryder go over Dolph Ziggler was a terrible decision.

The reason why they took Ryder off of TV is because his momentum was dieing out, which is understandable. The guy got a push because he did some internet youtube clips and a comedy show, He didn't get a push because of his wrestling skills or promo ability so how is it that shocking to anybody that the guy got shelved?

Well everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I think your wrong

I thought Zigglers time on the mic on the Raw with Foley was good. If anything, I think if he were broke apart from Vickie he could come into his own on the mic. I don't think Ziggler was "demoted" for not being able to cut a promo. I think Ziggler was demoted because creative/vince wasn't ready to take the WWE title off of Punk as they knew they had Punk/Jericho planned. It is like any person who feuds with Cena when Cena has the title. Even if they are great on the mic, but they lose to Cena and creative doesn't want the feud to go on anymore, they of course are going to be considered "demoted". Look at R Truth. He became a heel, went on to feud with Cena last year at Capitol Punishment, and then from there backslid a little, but within the next few months was involved with the Miz and a decent storyline. My guess is after WM, Ziggler will be back on the rise as, to me(keep in mind this is just my opinion), he is talented in the ring.

I agree with you on Ryder. While I find him somewhat entertaining, he got his push for being able to connect with the fans through his internet show. That can only go so far though. To me, Ryder at best will ever become a high upper midcarder on his best day

[Cabers]

Ziggles is the man fella he will be wwe champion eventually!

[El T Draino 316]

Well, I think your Wrong, Wrong and Wrong.

Dolph Ziggler is absolutely terrible on the mic, He cut a good promo against mick foley? HUH? That was one of the worst promos I have ever seen in my life so I don't know what you were watching. That is the reason Ziggler gets pushed backwards, he cannot cut a promo. And the US title was not worth anything more because Zack Ryder won the title ( a guy who won an "internet championship" ) As a matter of fact, having Zack ryder go over Dolph Ziggler was a terrible decision.

The reason why they took Ryder off of TV is because his momentum was dieing out, which is understandable. The guy got a push because he did some internet youtube clips and a comedy show, He didn't get a push because of his wrestling skills or promo ability so how is it that shocking to anybody that the guy got shelved?

Ziggler can't cut a promo? Please explain what was so bad about his promo against Foley? He was funny, cocky, and ruthless. Check it out at 3:25. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txW_FCB1auo

And have you seen 1 of the last 20 Ask the Heels on Ryder's show? He's got swagger, wit, and a unique, fast talking, rhythmic delivery. Maybe some of his innuendos are over your head kiddo. I recall him saying something along the lines of, "When they're done watching my match there won't be a dry eye - or seat, Sorry Ladies - in the entire arena." That's pretty damn entertaining to me. He's finding ways to make PG TV vulgar, which I applaud.

As for Ryder, his momentum was fading after TLC? It had just hit its high point. It faded the Raw after, when creative just chopped it all out from under him and he began appearing as a wide-eyed, love-stricken, middle-school, goof everytime they showed him and Eve backstage. As for taking Ryder off TV - they really didn't do that there big guy. He was a central figure in a 6 week feud you might have seen involving Kane and John Cena. Was there ever even 2 consecutive weeks he wasn't at least seen on Raw from TLC to EC? And that was a pretty damn big reaction he got when Eve and Cena realized Ryder saw the whole kiss scene (juvenile, but I was entertained). The in-ring scene where Ryder slapped Cena had the crowd buzzing as well.

Guess what I'm trying to say is... when Kane came out and beat up the whole tag division and stood tall in the ring... if Ryder's music hit and he stormed the ring, and knocked Kane out with a crutch to the head - the crowd would have MARKED. That would've (in my humble opinion) been much better than the feud Kane is heading towards. You don't agree?

[El T Draino 316]

Another stellar promo for the non-believers (#faces): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpsj9...eature=related

[HCollins-TNA1]

Ziggler can't cut a promo? Please explain what was so bad about his promo against Foley? He was funny, cocky, and ruthless. Check it out at 3:25. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txW_FCB1auo

And have you seen 1 of the last 20 Ask the Heels on Ryder's show? He's got swagger, wit, and a unique, fast talking, rhythmic delivery. Maybe some of his innuendos are over your head kiddo. I recall him saying something along the lines of, "When they're done watching my match there won't be a dry eye - or seat, Sorry Ladies - in the entire arena." That's pretty damn entertaining to me. He's finding ways to make PG TV vulgar, which I applaud.

As for Ryder, his momentum was fading after TLC? It had just hit its high point. It faded the Raw after, when creative just chopped it all out from under him and he began appearing as a wide-eyed, love-stricken, middle-school, goof everytime they showed him and Eve backstage. As for taking Ryder off TV - they really didn't do that there big guy. He was a central figure in a 6 week feud you might have seen involving Kane and John Cena. Was there ever even 2 consecutive weeks he wasn't at least seen on Raw from TLC to EC? And that was a pretty damn big reaction he got when Eve and Cena realized Ryder saw the whole kiss scene (juvenile, but I was entertained). The in-ring scene where Ryder slapped Cena had the crowd buzzing as well.

Guess what I'm trying to say is... when Kane came out and beat up the whole tag division and stood tall in the ring... if Ryder's music hit and he stormed the ring, and knocked Kane out with a crutch to the head - the crowd would have MARKED. That would've (in my humble opinion) been much better than the feud Kane is heading towards. You don't agree?

The thing about Ziggler he needs a voice or someone in his corner..... Thus why he was in the Spirit Squad, and why Vickie is his manager.... He talented in the ring and all, but he get lost in words or it the same bland boring look you have with any heel goodlooking guy.....

Now Ryder same applies he's talented, but is lost in the roster.... He can cut promos but he became a comedy act....

[RavenEffect]

They're trying to build up a strong mid-card again, and guys like Ziggler are perfect for it. Ziggler could be main eventing because everything he does is gold, but we've got a good amount of top guys right now so you keep the younger guys in the middle and let them evolve. Hopeful they'll do something interesting with him at the mid-card level and keep him far, far away from Swagger. Whatever they do with him, he's too good to just disappear into WWE dead space. He'll be around for a loooong time and probably be main eventing sooner rather than later, but again, wherever they put him he's going to shine. Oh and Ryder sucks. He's got potential though, so you keep him mid-card or lower (do we have a lower card anymore?) for awhile and hopefully he'll develop. Honestly if it weren't for Punk, he'd have be gone right now.

Oh, and Ziggler cuts an awesome promo.

[TNAorWWEorROH]

Ziggler can't cut a promo? Please explain what was so bad about his promo against Foley? He was funny, cocky, and ruthless. Check it out at 3:25. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txW_FCB1auo

And have you seen 1 of the last 20 Ask the Heels on Ryder's show? He's got swagger, wit, and a unique, fast talking, rhythmic delivery. Maybe some of his innuendos are over your head kiddo. I recall him saying something along the lines of, "When they're done watching my match there won't be a dry eye - or seat, Sorry Ladies - in the entire arena." That's pretty damn entertaining to me. He's finding ways to make PG TV vulgar, which I applaud.

As for Ryder, his momentum was fading after TLC? It had just hit its high point. It faded the Raw after, when creative just chopped it all out from under him and he began appearing as a wide-eyed, love-stricken, middle-school, goof everytime they showed him and Eve backstage. As for taking Ryder off TV - they really didn't do that there big guy. He was a central figure in a 6 week feud you might have seen involving Kane and John Cena. Was there ever even 2 consecutive weeks he wasn't at least seen on Raw from TLC to EC? And that was a pretty damn big reaction he got when Eve and Cena realized Ryder saw the whole kiss scene (juvenile, but I was entertained). The in-ring scene where Ryder slapped Cena had the crowd buzzing as well.

Guess what I'm trying to say is... when Kane came out and beat up the whole tag division and stood tall in the ring... if Ryder's music hit and he stormed the ring, and knocked Kane out with a crutch to the head - the crowd would have MARKED. That would've (in my humble opinion) been much better than the feud Kane is heading towards. You don't agree?

When I compare Ziggler to people who know how to cut an actual promo like Steve Austin, The Rock, HHH, The Miz, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk he is not even close to those guys. Dolph Ziggler sucks on the mic lol look at him during that "debate" that RAW had on the few weeks ago, wow....