What can possibly put Punk completely over as a Heel?

[Dubs]

how about he takes out guys who the fans actually give a shit about, zack ryder, christian, rey mysterio, you know

not supposed fan favourites like cena or ryback

Cena and Ryback are fan favorites (Ryback isn't that 'over' but hes getting there I guess).

[Lowki]

I think mocking someone who had a heart attack was absolutely shocking, rather than heelish. It screamed vince mcmahon!

[Robstar]

I think mocking someone who had a heart attack was absolutely shocking, rather than heelish. It screamed vince mcmahon!

[dragonsrevenge]

CM Punk is already over as a heel. Hes getting good heel heat and hes one of the best heels in wrestling today. His promo on Jerry Lawler mocking his heart-attack was pretty much the icing on the cake in terms of his character becoming more and more as a heat-magnet.

You'll have fans who cheer him but like the others have stated, they are cheering him because of his heel work being something they see as 'cool' and 'edgy'. Punk is on fire as a heel right now and he is definitely over as a heel, no doubt about it.

I hope CM Punk stays as a heel. Hes better booked that way since hes more compelling as a heel. His current heel work may not be his best stuff like his Straight Edge Society gimmick back in mid-2009 through 2010 but he is indeed entertaining me with his heel persona.

But he's not getting good heat because he's still cheered by the majority of the crowd and he will be cheered next week too. That's the point I've been making the entire time. I like his current heel persona, as his smarmy "voice of the voiceless" thing was going nowhere fast, and I still like him, but as I've said time and time again, he's not getting over as a hated person with the general viewing public (ie, not the smarks or smart fans).

[Dubs]

But he's not getting good heat because he's still cheered by the majority of the crowd and he will be cheered next week too. That's the point I've been making the entire time. I like his current heel persona, as his smarmy "voice of the voiceless" thing was going nowhere fast, and I still like him, but as I've said time and time again, he's not getting over as a hated person with the general viewing public (ie, not the smarks or smart fans).

Yes he is over as a heel. Like I said before, hes still getting heel heat from the fans. Sure, you will have some people who cheer him because they see his heel stuff as being cool and edgy but that does not mean he isn't over as a heel. Hes the best heel in wrestling right now.

For instance, look at The Rock's heel persona back in 2003. The Rock's Hollywood gimmick was The Rock's greatest work as a heel. His Hollywood, snobby persona made for a perfect heel character. Although he was getting booed by most of the fans, there were some fans who still cheered for The Rock because, well, hes The Rock. They didn't want to boo The Rock no matter what.

Another example is Stone Cold's heel turn back in 2001. Stone Cold turns heel, joining forces with Vince Mcmahon. Stone Cold was at his best as a heel, putting on great matches with The Rock, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, etc. The fans hated Austin for turning his back on the WWE when he joined the Alliance but there were some fans that just didn't want to boo Stone Cold because they saw him as cool and edgy, especially since he saved the WWE from folding. Of course you were going to have a few who weren't going to boo him. Still doesn't mean he wasn't over as a heel.

One more example would be Hulk Hogan's heel turn and forming the NWO. Hulk Hogan turned on WCW by joining forces with Hall and Nash which shocked many fans. The fans felt betrayed at Hogan as well as the other WCW wrestlers that joined the NWO. Although you had many fans who felt betrayed by Hogan turning his back on the fans, you had people who loved the new Hollywood Hulk Hogan because they finally saw him as cool and edgy even though he was the most hated heel in wrestling at the time.

So it's not a case of CM Punk not getting over as a heel because hes already over as a heel. It's a case of some fans not wanting to boo him because of his heel persona which is seen as cool and edgy to them.

[Murphdogg4]

Stone Colds heel turn in 01 didn't work, even Vince admitted it was a mistake.

[Dubs]

Stone Colds heel turn in 01 didn't work, even Vince admitted it was a mistake.

It did work. Stone Cold was fantastic as a heel back during the Two Man Power Trips team with Triple H and the Invasion angle but like I said before, some fans just didn't want to boo him because he was Stone Cold. Plus, Stone Cold only turned back face because his merchandise sales as a heel weren't as strong as his merchandise sales as a face.

I'm sure Vince said that the heel turn was a mistake because of Austin not wanting to work as a heel, not because he wasn't over as a heel.

[dragonsrevenge]

It did work. Stone Cold was fantastic as a heel back during the Two Man Power Trips team with Triple H and the Invasion angle but like I said before, some fans just didn't want to boo him because he was Stone Cold. Plus, Stone Cold only turned back face because his merchandise sales as a heel weren't as strong as his merchandise sales as a face.

I'm sure Vince said that the heel turn was a mistake because of Austin not wanting to work as a heel, not because he wasn't over as a heel.

Except it didnt work, as he wasn't booed by the majority of the fans; had all the fans behind him. Doing heel things doesnt mean anything if you can't get the crowd to turn on you. The Rock was still loved by the majority of the fans despite his whole hollywood thing, so that didnt go over quite well. Hogan had a ring full of garbage thrown at him. That worked.

I'll admit that punk is more over as a bad guy now than Rock or SCSA were, but when they have him mock Lawler's heart attack, thats how you know He's not quite there.

TL;DR: Doing heel things + majority of fans cheer != not over as a heel

[Mr Punk]

The CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy was the best heel work CM Punk has done so far in the WWE because Jeff was over like crazy and when Punk turned he would get booed out of the building just for even cashing in the MITB against Jeff. The stuff they had going on for this feud was awesome. If Jeff were to return I would definitely love to see these two go at it again.

[Lowki]

That's exactly what popped into my mind whilst watching the segment!