Have You Been Convinced?

[K2Jelly]

So the guy hits all of the scripted face turn bullet-points that any other person on the roster could have hit, and that's somehow cause for celebration?

Well, since WWE is trying to push him as a traditional babyface, with his usual underlying arrogance, I find it important that he gets those sort of mannerisms under wrap. And the fact that he was able to execute well with the WWE Champion speaks volumes. He convincingly opposed WWE's top heel as a face whilst preserving his touch for mic work. That's a cause for celebration IMO so yes.

Sorry, that does absolutely nothing to instill any sort of confidence in me that he's going to be anything remotely special in the role.

Well, you can feel that way and it's cool.

And really, not making one cringe shouldn't be the standard for excellence. But then again, maybe that's a testament to the state of things; we as fans no longer demand superlative, as we're just happy to get passable.

Of course not. I just stated it as a bonus as I feel that The Miz is one of the few people who could have made that sort of promo work out. All the same, that exclusive advantage isn't necessarily my excuse for my praise. Like I said, just an appreciation for his mick work and how he's flexible enough to make it work as both a face and a heel.

[Iron Ape]

Well, since WWE is trying to push him as a traditional babyface, with his usual underlying arrogance, I find it important that he gets those sort of mannerisms under wrap. And the fact that he was able to execute well with the WWE Champion speaks volumes. He convincingly opposed WWE's top heel as a face whilst preserving his touch for mic work. That's a cause for celebration IMO so yes.

Pandering is not a mannerism; it's a technique. And anyone can do it. That he's hitting those established beats isn't some kind of grand accomplishment, either. It's the proverbial sound a talent creates when they hit said beat that matters, and it's my opinion that he just ain't making no music yet (keyword being "opinion", as matters of subjectivity aren't fact).

And since when is Miz's arrogance underlying? He practically smashes people over the head with it.

Well, you can feel that way and it's cool.

Thanks, brah, I appreciate the permission.

Of course not. I just stated it as a bonus as I feel that The Miz is one of the few people who could have made that sort of promo work out. All the same, that exclusive advantage isn't necessarily my excuse for my praise. Like I said, just an appreciation for his mick work and how he's flexible enough to make it work as both a face and a heel.

The script dictates that he appeal to the crowd instead of antagonize it. Simply carrying out the task of playing good instead of bad isn't a full range of motion so much as it just a basic, un-nuanced shift from one extreme to the other.

[Darkside Ron Garvin]

I can't say that I have ever been a fan of Miz. I don't hate him as I respect what he does and think he has put his whole heart into whatever he has been given; I just don't like him. He isn't entertaining to me. He isn't someone who gives me that feeling of excitement when he comes on screen. If anything, he is a click for my FF button on my DVR. Maybe one day I'll get to see what everyone is talking about with the guy, but when I look at the guy, I just see US title, IC Title, Tag Team Title. Even knowing he's a former WWE champion doesn't change the way I see him in promos or how I view his performance in the ring. I just see "upper mid-card/Main Event Filler" when I look at him. Maybe next time he is on, I will try harder to not FF past his promos, skits, or matches... But that's a stretch.

[Robstar]

I didn't mind when Miz first came out, though I missed the Miz TV segment. He seemed good to me but that could also be because I'm a little sick of Punk. He seems so......uninspired lately and Miz scored some cheap heat off that I think. What Punk needs to do is commit an act akin to what The Rock did to Mankind at the famous Royal Rumble 'I Quit' match to really turn the tide of opinion. Right now, I sense an indifference.

But I can see that it would make sense to throw Miz straight in there with CM Punk. The Ryback feud won't have the legs to keep going much longer and Punk needs someone to go against. Give Miz the rub, firmly install him as a face but where to from there, for Miz, I can't say.

[Iron Ape]

I didn't mind when Miz first came out, though I missed the Miz TV segment. He seemed good to me but that could also be because I'm a little sick of Punk. He seems so......uninspired lately and Miz scored some cheap heat off that I think. What Punk needs to do is commit an act akin to what The Rock did to Mankind at the famous Royal Rumble 'I Quit' match to really turn the tide of opinion. Right now, I sense an indifference.

But I can see that it would make sense to throw Miz straight in there with CM Punk. The Ryback feud won't have the legs to keep going much longer and Punk needs someone to go against. Give Miz the rub, firmly install him as a face but where to from there, for Miz, I can't say.

Punk's definitely been on auto-pilot for a couple of weeks now, but that's probably just the inevitability of stagnating in the same spot for a year. That the feuds he's getting are total snoozes probably isn't helping.

[Robstar]

Punk's definitely been on auto-pilot for a couple of weeks now, but that's probably just the inevitability of stagnating in the same spot for a year. That the feuds he's getting are total snoozes probably isn't helping.

Hopefully some interaction with The Rock can rejuvinate Punk somewhat.

[Iron Ape]

Hopefully some interaction with The Rock can rejuvinate Punk somewhat.

I'm thinking things will get juicy once they both start shooting from the hip. Those two should be electric together.

[K2Jelly]

Pandering is not a mannerism; it's a technique. And anyone can do it. That he's hitting those established beats isn't some kind of grand accomplishment, either. It's the proverbial sound a talent creates when they hit said beat that matters, and it's my opinion that he just ain't making no music yet (keyword being "opinion", as matters of subjectivity aren't fact).

I'm not really saying that The Miz is a perfect babyface at all. It's his promo with Punk that I was a fan of but that's another story. I'm giving him more credit than the other roster members because with his gimmick, you'd think that it wouldn't be able to work out at all but in my opinion, he did it rather well. The only real edge I gave him was that he could be more marketable since the crowd is getting behind him now.

And since when is Miz's arrogance underlying? He practically smashes people over the head with it.

Wrong choice of words, I guess. Since it's somewhat subdued, I thought it'd fit.

Thanks, brah, I appreciate the permission.

Since I find you one of the more sensible members of the forums, I won't take that quip at face value. Otherwise, I'd like to stress the point that I'm rather comfortable with people who have different opinions than me. I only brought that up since that note about subjectivity seemed to imply that in a crueler and less accurate sense, I'm not able to differentiate between fact and opinion, which again, is simply baseless.

Also, if bringing that up rubbed you off the wrong way, i sincerely apologize as I'm not trying to escalate things outside civil discourse.

The script dictates that he appeal to the crowd instead of antagonize it. Simply carrying out the task of playing good instead of bad isn't a full range of motion so much as it just a basic, un-nuanced shift from one extreme to the other.

I don't see what else he's supposed to do as a babyface expect tone down the bravado a bit.

[Robstar]

I'm thinking things will get juicy once they both start shooting from the hip. Those two should be electric together.

Also, he looks tired. Like legitimately run down like he did when he was doing SES. I suppose Pepsi will only get you so far. I think they could give him a good couple of weeks off and use the angle that he's no showing in protest or something. But you know.........Vince wouldn't be having any of that.

[Iron Ape]

I'm not really saying that The Miz is a perfect babyface at all. It's his promo with Punk that I was a fan of but that's another story. I'm giving him more credit than the other roster members because with his gimmick, you'd think that it wouldn't be able to work out at all but in my opinion, he did it rather well. The only real edge I gave him was that he could be more marketable since the crowd is getting behind him now.

See, I'm not convinced that the crowd was behind Miz specifically so much as they were just behind the guy against Punk in that particular moment. I've got a feeling that Khali could have limped out and been all "Heeeeeyoooooowwwwlllllllllllrarrrthjushdkoertnfis " or whatever the hell and people probably would have dug it. I think it speaks more to the role than it does the quality of the individual performance (but, again, that's just me).

The coming weeks should be telling in regards to just how behind Miz people get. Move him on to a lower-watt heel and then let's see how he fares.

Since I find you one of the more sensible members of the forums, I won't take that quip at face value. Otherwise, I'd like to stress the point that I'm rather comfortable with people who have different opinions than me. I only brought that up since that note about subjectivity seemed to imply that in a crueler and less accurate sense, I'm not able to differentiate between fact and opinion, which again, is simply baseless.

Also, if bringing that up rubbed you off the wrong way, i sincerely apologize as I'm not trying to escalate things outside civil discourse.

Nah, we're all good Jells. No offense was intended.

I did, however, not think that Miz's execution against Punk was any great shakes, so I don't agree with it being presented as fact. That's an entirely subjective position. Genuinely sorry if you didn't like the way I went about contesting that.

I don't see what else he's supposed to do as a babyface expect tone down the bravado a bit.

Something other than lazily hitting all of the cliches we come to expect from a face turn maybe? Or what about not using jokes that were on the back of one of Cena's discarded Denny's napkins?

Seriously, there are ways to play with established conventions and make them one's own. Miz just needs to find a way to do that.