Managers, stars, and direction: A discussion on what's missing in the WWE.

[buzzkillington]

In a different thread, someone asked what has happened to managers in professional wrestling. In the shadow of the death of Larry Sweeney, I feel this, and to a greater extent the state of mainstream professional wrestling, deserves some more examination. The first time I saw Sweeney on the ROH Video Wire, I thought this guy was destined not only to be a star, but to make them. But I don't think he ever even got a look by the WWE. And why? Vince likes to bitch that he can't make stars at the moment, and that's because he refuses to do anything the way a wrestling promoter would. Why have Larry Sweeney, who was God's gifts to promos and could get heat from a crowd of 200 that made it seem like a crowd of 20000, talk for someone like Batista or Drew McIntyre (who in my opinion cut boring, coma inducing promos), when you could send them out there to stumble over their lines for ten minutes and bore the shit out of your paying customers? Its almost like Vince working so hard to erase wrestling from the face of the earth that he forgot that wrestling is what people come to his product for. Sure, there are some who only tune in to see what the Miz is doing or who the guest star is, but 90% of his consistent viewers are wrestling fans.

And the bigger problem here is that wrestling fans no longer identify with the characters that are presented from then. With Edge gone, Christian unlikely to get a push (at least not a sustained one), Triple H and the Undertaker both in question going forward, and guys like CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, and Evan Bourne losing every week, who is there worth turning in for? There's Cena, who even bores children at this point, Rey, who is on the tail end of his career, Del Rio, who is still learning to work US crowds (but is coming along quickly), Orton (poor man's Stone Cold), Cody Rhodes (who actually has tremendous potential with his new gimmick), and Morrison who seems to kill his push every other week. With a lack of stars for fans to get behind, what kind of direction do the storylines have?

I think it all comes down to one thing: Vince McMachon. Vince seems to detest the idea that he is running a wrestling company, and at every turn he proves this. He refuses to use managers, despite the fact that guys like Sweeney have proven that that can still be an important role in pushing talent, instead of pushing wrestlers, he hires actors who can bump (insert Cena joke here), he won't give a look to anyone who's "undersized" unless they can help him boost ratings in with a particular demographic (thus Sin Cara who is botcharific at the moment gets pushed to the main event, while main event ready Evan Bourne sits on the sidelines) and instead of featuring wresting on his premier show, he features lame comedy sketches which rarely work in my opinion.

What does this say about the future of wrestling? I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure I don't like it.

[Behemoth!]

THAT WAS ME! I BROUGHT IT UP! I'm so cool.

[buzzkillington]

THAT WAS ME! I BROUGHT IT UP! I'm so cool.

I tried to quote you, but I couldn't figure out how to do it in a new thread.

[TheMadThinker]

Vince McMahon is not in business to preserve the integrity of professional wrestling, but to make money and insure WWE is an ultra successful company. If you think along those lines a lot of what he does makes sense.

I am not saying you have to agree with it. I do not really agree with it because I prefer wrestling the way it was 15 years ago.

Never forget that wrestling is set up for the casual viewer and people under 17 years of age. If wrestling was set up for the internet wrestling community and hardcore fans it would have died out a long time ago because it would be like coming into the Stars Wars saga mid way into Return of the Jedi. Someone who has never seen it would just not get it at all and turn the channel.

[Behemoth!]

I wasn't just pissed, but I was FURIOUS at women's wrestling invading my Monday Night Raw! Sable vs Jacqueline was so awesome to watch every Monday night for months straight, wasn't it? Eventually they got it right, and when I see Women's matches now I don't sigh, or roll my eyes, or turn it to Nitro (for obvious reasons). I may still use this time for a piss break, and a part of me says a prayer to God when Michael Cole interrupts an Eve match with some kind of boast, but I got used to it. I got over all my preconceptions and just took in what was there and enjoyed what I could out of it. I can get as jaded as any other person who's a part of the IWC, but I try not to. Things change in wrestling, and although I agree with many of the things buzzkillington has stated, I can't change anything about it. I just have to find the things worth salvaging and cling onto those like a suicide victim clutching the pistol he shot himself with.

[buzzkillington]

Vince McMahon is not in business to preserve the integrity of professional wrestling, but to make money and insure WWE is an ultra successful company. If you think along those lines a lot of what he does makes sense.

I am not saying you have to agree with it. I do not really agree with it because I prefer wrestling the way it was 15 years ago.

Never forget that wrestling is set up for the casual viewer and people under 17 years of age. If wrestling was set up for the internet wrestling community and hardcore fans it would have died out a long time ago because it would be like coming into the Stars Wars saga mid way into Return of the Jedi for a casual fan. They would just not get it at all and turn the channel.

I agree with you in principle, but I also think that the current business plan isn't pulling in casual viewers. Ratings are too consistent, and have been for too long. You get spikes when The Rock or Bret Hart show up, but that's it. I also think that your idea, while valid, is kind of condescending to the casual viewer, and overstates the complexity of wrestling storylines. Star Wars didn't have three announcers telling you why Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker were fighting, but WWE television always reminds its viewers exactly why matches are happening. A better example then Star Wars would be Lost. If people catch Lost midway through season three, they are confused, but intrigued. They do their own research and seek out everything they might need to know to figure out what's going on (DVDs, forums, etc.). But there's nothing to hook causal fans right now, and I think going back to what has worked in the past can attract them again.

[TheMadThinker]

I agree with you in principle, but I also think that the current business plan isn't pulling in casual viewers. Ratings are too consistent, and have been for too long. You get spikes when The Rock or Bret Hart show up, but that's it. I also think that your idea, while valid, is kind of condescending to the casual viewer, and overstates the complexity of wrestling storylines. Star Wars didn't have three announcers telling you why Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker were fighting, but WWE television always reminds its viewers exactly why matches are happening. A better example then Star Wars would be Lost. If people catch Lost midway through season three, they are confused, but intrigued. They do their own research and seek out everything they might need to know to figure out what's going on (DVDs, forums, etc.). But there's nothing to hook causal fans right now, and I think going back to what has worked in the past can attract them again.

You do not really have the same emotional investment unless you have seen it for yourself originally, plus WWE is notorious for ignoring and flat out erasing history that does not neatly fit into their current storylines.

[King-of-Kings]

The Attitude Era to me will always be the best days of wrestling and these are a few reasons why. It's possible to recreate these days while still maintaining the PG feel WWE wants.

FACTIONS: There were strong factions like DX, Corporate Ministry, Nation of Domination, Corporation, Ministry of Darkness, The Brood. All these factions had legit talent with each member involved in meaningful feuds over pride or titles. Example: The Nexus could have 2 going for the tag team titles, one for the intercontinental, and Punk for the world title.

TAG TEAMS: The tag team division allowed there to be more stars included in one match taking up less time than individual feuds. Example: Having The Hardy Boyz, Edge and Christian, The Dudleys. Lots of talent that was seen each week in meaningful matches. Tag teams was also a way for stars to rise. The Rock, Kane, Big Show had good runs in tag teams that pushed them to their singles career. In the WWE today there is basically no tag team division. You can have teams like Daniel Bryan & Evan Bourne, Zack Ryder & Primo, Members from The New Nexus, etc. We would be seeing great talent actually being used.

Here are a few suggestions in setting that up:

Women's Championship: They just need better stories and a great place to start would be having the women be managers for the men. Get more exposure for the women and you can have the title on the women with more of the successful men.

Tag Teams: Justin Gabriel & Heath Slater, Daniel Bryan & Evan Bourne, Zack Ryder & Primo, Santino & Yoshi, Ted DiBiase & Chris Masters, David Otunga & Michael McGillicutty.

US Championship: Alex Riley, Mason Ryan, Sin Cara, Drew McIntyre, Ezekiel Jackson

Intercontinental Championship: Wade Barrett, Jack Swagger, Dolph Ziggler, Kofi Kingston, Cody Rhodes, Sheamus

World Championship & WWE: Alberto Del Rio, Christian, Big Show, Kane, John Morrison, R-Truth, John Cena, CM Punk, Randy Orton, The Miz

Within these championship guidelines you can have 2 to 3 in a feud for the title and then 2 to 3 in a feud to become the #1 contender for each title. Have #1 contender matches for the Tag Team, US, and Intercontinental. It would bring more value to each title. People fighting for the shot at each title rather than just being able to get a match.

A lot of the top guys don't even need the title or a shot at the title. In the attitude era there were several times when Austin was in a feud with Vince or the Rock, Triple H in a feud with Jericho or the Rock when the title didn't even matter, but they were still on top. These guys could be Cena, Orton, Big Show, Kane...they are capable of having feuds with no titles, but still have meaning and still be superstars in the WWE.

[ProWrestlingFan]

I see evan bourne being future endeavor soon.
great thread btw!

[Polly-Pablo]

Here are a few suggestions in setting that up:

Intercontinental Championship: Wade Barrett, Jack Swagger, Dolph Ziggler, Kofi Kingston, Cody Rhodes, Sheamus

World Championship & WWE: Alberto Del Rio, Christian, Big Show, Kane, John Morrison, R-Truth, John Cena, CM Punk, Randy Orton, The Miz

I'm with you on a lot of this but I just can't see how R-Truth is in any way better than Cody Rhodes?

I would swap these two in a heartbeat - Rhodes is a long term investment and miles ahead of Truth in promo and technical ability